Wednesday, July 14, 2004
What's Up With the Attitude, Adam?
6:55 PM /
Editor /
 
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14 Comments:
i am a middle rank law enforcment officer.
one thing i want to tell you all:
not all people can enter the forign affairs department,most of them are sons and daughters of very connected or highly corrupt CCP officer, SO NOW YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO,JOSEPH!!!HAHA
WHY NOT TALK TO SOME PEOPLE IN VILLAGE, PROFESSOR JOSEPH
WHY STAY IN BEIJING
WHY NOT USE YOUR TALENT AND TIME TO CONFRONT CCP MEMBER
WHY NOT TELL SOMETHING USEFUL TO YOUR STUDENTS
WHY NOT TELL TAIWAN PEOPLE THAT USA PEOPLE WILL ABANDON THEM IF THEY CHOOSE TO STAND UP
WHY NOT TELL IRAQ PEOPLE DEPOSING SADDAM IS A BIG MISTAKE
WHY NOT TO PETITION TO UN TO FREE SADDAM
IT IS HYPOCRISY,STUPID
You're insane.
Sir,
Thank you for again choosing to address your comments in these pages.
You are certainly right that most if not all of the students who are invited to attend the China Foreign Affairs University come from well-to-do parents. As to their parents being corrupt CCP members, that I can only guess at, but I am certainly willing to take your word on it since you are an expert in the law enforcement field in China.
One of the reasons I chose to teach at other schools on top of my full load at the China Foreign Affairs University is that I do want to teach and learn from people who are not from the privileged class. I have traveled to rural areas as often as I could; I was able to it more often in 2002 - 2003 when I was at Xiamen University in Fujian Province.
Unfortunately, since I have been in Beijing, I have much more work to do so I have not been able to travel as much as I would like. I am not one of the Americans who come to China to teach only so they can be year-round tourists. But, I am going to be here many years so, with time and some guidance, I hope to see and learn as much about China--all aspects of China--as I can.
As far as using my "talent" to confront CCP members, while it is appropriate for me to have meaningful exchanges with members of the Party, I believe that is best done in private. I am here as a guest of your country, being paid by your government with your tax money, I would not think it wise or polite for me to overly criticize the Central government in a public forum such as this blog.
I do thank you for suggesting that I have "talent," there are many people in this world who would take great issue with you on that.
I would tell the people of Taiwan not to put too much trust in American military support; I have already done so on a limited scale. As a much younger person I had a great deal of contact with Taiwanese Fighter Pilots and other Taiwanese Air Force personnel who came to America to train.
At present, other than this blog and my occasional commentary on CCTV 9, I have no other way of telling the people in Taiwan much of anything.
Regarding the War in Iraq; I am a severe critic of Mr. Bush's entire foreign policy, but particularly in Iraq. However, I was no fan of Mr. Hussein who, quite frankly, if I had had the chance I would have shot in the head with satisfaction, thereby saving all of the casualties on all sides of this stupid war. Of course, he would just as happily have shot me in several places to prolong my suffering. I am not a peacenik. But I abhor the deaths of so many innocents that is the by-product of war.
I will not petition the U.N. to pardon Saddam Hussein. To my knowledge he has not been convicted of a crime as yet.
If you think me a hypocrite, I am sorry for that and wish it not to be so; but I am what I am even though I try hard every day to become a better human being--I also fail at it every day.
Thank you for your time, and your thoughts.
Joseph
Great, the police officer thinks I am an elitist stupid hypocrite. And someone else thinks I am insane.
This has not been a good day.
Great replies, Joseph, and a great post.
It's fine for us to disagree with one another, but is it really that hard to do so with respect and courtesy? I made a point on my own site recently that prompted a commenter to snipe "So what?" How about, "I see where you are coming from, but I see it differently...."? But maybe you and I are from an older school. I love a spirited debate/argument, but we mustn't forget about protocol.
Richard,
Thank goodness there are still folks around such as us; however, you are a good deal better of a human being than I am as yet.
Joseph
i am the middle rank law enforcement officer( not police).I EVER WORKED WITH GUYS FORM DHS .
first i did not address my comment!your blog(or IT service provider sucks, it is very difficult to comment
using my true name,SO A LOT OF GUYS USE THE SAME NAME)
second i have no intention to insult you ( if i have i just want to say sorry),so peking duck do not mentioned the old school or protocol ( TCP/IP OR WI-FI???),HAHAHA
third I AM MAYBE TOO enthusiastic! BUT I REALLY WANT YOU GUYS TO DO SOMETHING TO HELP CHINA! DO NOT MIND MY TAX,99% OF THE TAXPAERS ARE POOR AND DISENFRANCHISED PEOPLE,SO JUST GO AHEAD PROFESSOR.( RICH PEOPLE NEVER PAY TAX AS I KNOW)
Richard and Joseph: I'm with you...there seems to be a massive lacking in civil disource these days and the blogosphere is amongst the worst perpertrators of it. Apparently no one wants to have a normal debate when vitriol will do. As for this other commenter,well the comments speak loudly about the person.
I'm more with Adam on this one. Why are you taking such umbrage at such a minor, inoffensive remark? Adam made the point that, given the PRC being decidedly undemocratic, university students have about as much input into foreign policy making as you or me. Hence, while the elite university students are saying that they're willing to swim across the Straits with knives in their teeth, that has little bearing on the actual people in charge, who by the way are a bit more circumspect. Oh trust me, the upper reaches of the CCP want to effect reunification as much as the studenst do, but they're also more keenly aware of the extremely painful costs that war would entail. Sure, the hardliners in the CCP are saying that they'll rain death from the skies if Taiwan ever declares independence, but there's a reason why they haven't done anything but impotently flail their arms for each step Taiwan that has made towards independence (Taiwan's first presidential election, the first election of a president from the pro-independence party, etc.)
And speaking of civility, what's with the slagging of English teachers? You're on your high horse saying that you're no lowly English teacher. But both Adam and I are English teachers who have spent more time than you in China and who can actually speak and read a modicum of the language.
Wayne
www.abtom.net
Wayne,
If you do not feel that Adam's words and context were dismissive, petulant and greatly self-indulgent then nothing I can say here will change your mind, but I will make one stab at it: Unfortunately, Adam has an insecurity problem which leads him to feel that he must thump his chest as THE portal for what is going on politically in China. I and a few others have grown tired of his unwarranted and unearned "territoriality" on all things China.
I for one have many, many years of life, education and expertise on young Mr. Brainysmurf--which is to be expected, I am 55 years old and have a substantial publishing record and other salient professional and personal stripes earned in those two score and 15 years of living and learning.
As far as only "elite" students being represented in my remarks--again you place yourself squarely with the inattentive Adam: I teach and have taught at 4 completely different Chinese universities and colleges; they cover the full spectrum of Chinese society save for the very poor. However, please remember that almost all great movements in world history came from young people, not old folks. In my salad days we brought down two presidents and changed American culture in large measure.
Regarding my remark about "English teachers": I can only report what I see and what the record supports--the quality of "ESL teachers" in China is abysmal and should be widely publicized as such. In general, most academics believe that the "Foreign Expert" program has been more a part of the problem than the solution.
If you are one of the few real educators who came here to work as opposed to having an adventure, then you are not included in my condemnation. However, if you are, then you would not be begging the question with me.
I greatly appreciate your time and effort in commenting on this site; please do return.
Joseph
Dear Mid-level Law Enforcement Officer,
I am most unhappy with the Blogger system that makes it difficult for posters to comment other than “anonymous” myself. I apologize for the inconvenience.
I am very happy to learn that you had no intention to insult me, and I greatly appreciate your setting that matter straight.
As far as your comment about I and others like me doing “something to help China,” I must confess that you grant me powers I do not possess. While I am doing everything I can to teach the subjects I have expertise in—primarily print and broadcast journalism and how both can effect foreign policy—I am in fact learning more from my students than they are from me in the areas of culture, politics and social values.
Also, don’t worry too much about my salary; it is not substantial by any standard, Chinese or Western. I am not in China for the money; fortunately I have my American income. One of the many wonders of the Internet is that it allows professional writers to live anywhere in the world we choose and still be in constant touch with our agents and publishers.
Again, thank you for your comments.
Joseph
(Different anonymous poster#101. First post!)
Joseph,
Good title: but "What's Up With My Attitude?" would have been more appropriate. I'm sorry but I'm with Adam on this (although I fully agree with your analysis that China would attack Taiwan).
However, I am at a complete loss as to why you have gone for Adam's jugular here, and then perpetuated it with increasing acidity.
I have read and re-read both your posts and cannot imagine why you are so worked up about his. Unless there are some parallel e-mail exchanges going on which is adding fuel to the spat, then I wonder why you are making such a fuss?
His original post was a bit dismissive, but no more than many posts on many good blogs. When I read Adam's post, I didn't for a single moment think "Wow...Joseph's going to get pissed at that!". And given that it did rub you up the wrong way, I would have expected a journalist of your experience to brush it off lightly and gently reciprocate at a future date.
However, your reposted comment was, to be quite honest Joseph, astonishingly patronising and belittling, and subsequent posts on the subject have even become somewhat intimidating. Pompousness does not become you.
My theory (which is probably as wayward as all my theories) is that there is some jealousy here (possibly mutual), but also some anger that he writes for Winds of Change. I share your views on Winds of Change, but looking back, Adam has developed a good track record of interesting commentary on China issues.
You are both (along with Richard) my first read on the murky world of China's underbelly.
I am sorry I feel the need to remain anonymous. Various reasons for this, not least that I have occasionally corresponded with you and always feel informed by your China writing (even when I don't agree), but sense a sinister undercurrent to all this petulance. Anonymity is always the preserve of the coward, but in this situation cowardice seems apposite.,
Hi,
There is food for thought in your reasoned approach to something that is deeper than what can be seen in posts and comments to posts.
There are e-mails involved; and my anger is fueled more by what was done to a friend of mine than Adam's post negating my rebuttal of McCarthy's Taiwan piece.
I will sleep on it; it's been a long bad day and week.
But I must say this now, I can't hold it back: I will fight anyone over the rights of students to be heard and counted in all countries and cultures.
I also cannot tolerate chest-thumpers who are so hungry for credit that they pander or worse dismiss something of merit just to appear to be the one "connected." Adam has been doing that for a long time but without the goods to back it up.
Believe me, I did not just decide one day to take off on Adam. If you will take a careful look at the opposing, dismissive, position he has taken in the past week or so without foundation to one of the most reasonable and talented bloggers in our community, someone we both admire greatly, you might better understand my action.
Attack me--I can take it. I've been in the rough and tumble world of big-time journalism played out on a national level for many years. I have given and taken from the biggest and best. I cannot be hurt.
But do not attack my friends who do not have the same thick hide and experience; and most certainly do not dismiss the viewpoints of students.
If I have damaged my standing in your eyes or the blogging world at large by this, so be it. Frankly, Adam will eventually be a better writer and reporter if he takes a deep look at what has been motivating his posts far too often of late, and it isn't intellectual honesty. However, I am quite certain that he is not the least bit concerned about any of this. I do not sense enough depth of passion for writing and reporting, only for back-patting.
Please understand, I have had far more fame than I desired during the 90's, I am not hungry for more. Most of it was painful and useless, but I learned much from it. Much of what I learned was to spot a Toobin-like phony in a heartbeat; Adam displays all of the same symptoms without the stylish writing talent that Jeffrey has in spades but has squandered by pandering and chest-thumping.
I need to get some sleep; I will think more about it tomorrow. But I do appreciate your kindness and directness. Thank you.
Joseph
the best way to ensure you'll never be offended, or outraged, by BS' bs is do what i did: simply stop visiting his site :)
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